I’ve been royally fucked over by a big-name blogger.
I have been silenced and banned from a community that I helped to build and that I am extremely passionate about. I invested three months of my blood, sweat and tears into promoting someone else and I feel as though I was forced to walk away with nothing. This isn’t the first time getting involved in someone else’s community has turned out to be a complete waste of my time, and it won’t be the last.
Rather than an attempt to tear someone else down, I want this to serve as an example of exactly what not to do when you’re trying to build an online community, and how not to treat your True Fans.
This isn’t a character assassination piece, so I’m not going to name any names. I won’t go into the specifics here, but I would ask that anyone who is intimately involved not judge me based on one side of the story. Just know that there has been a lot of back-and-forth struggle behind closed doors, and deciding how to get on with it has generated weeks of stress for me. But I’ll just let the facts speak for themselves, and try to boil this experience down into some constructive lessons that we can all use.
These are (in my opinion) the non-negotiable new rules of business in the new media age:
1. Some people want to filter certain voices out of the conversation, shut out their competitors and make sure key players in their niche don’t get too involved. But if you open up your brand and turn it into a lifestyle or a philosophy that people identify with, you forfeit control. You can guide the discussion, but you aren’t allowed to control it. You don’t get to pick and choose who’s involved and who’s not. That’s not genuine and authentic.
2. Some people think others only operate for selfish reasons, so they mistrust everyone, constantly worried that people are only involved in your platform to steal your ideas and capitalize on your success. If you accuse your fans of riding your coattails, you risk making them defensive and regretful of the effort they’ve put in. You’ve got to let your users share in your success, let them shine. The more rockstars rise up out of your community, the better!
3. Some people treat their fans like a free workforce. Maybe if you’re a rock band you can get everyone to wear shirts with your name on them and promote you all over the place. Fans are very helpful when it comes to for spreading your ideas and adding to the conversation. But if you want to outsource sales and marketing to people who’ll do things exactly how you want them done, like an employee, you better be willing to pay them a salary.
4. Some people have a scarcity mindset and look at business like a zero-sum game. If you team up with your equals though—other entrepreneurs or content producers who think similarly as you, live similarly as you, or run their business similarly as you—then the point should be to create win-win situations where everyone benefits from the efforts of the team. There is plenty of business, blog readers, and wealth to spread around, and we are better off working collaboratively than alone.
5. Some people want to retain full control over every facet of the what their community creates. If your users take the initiative to express their creativity and their passion about your subject and build their own interpretations of it, that doesn’t mean you own that property. Nobody signed any intellectual property contracts here because we’re not talking about employees. Going out of your way to show that fan creations are “unofficial” and building your own official replica is a petty move which completely invalidates your users’ contributions to the group.
6. Some people think this is a one-way conversation, and that all eyes should be on themselves. If someone sings your praises constantly, comments on your work, link to posts on your site, shares, and engages with your community, reciprocate dammit!
7. Some people want to silence any conflicting opinions or dissent. But this isn’t the army either. I’m sure that when someone challenges your ideas, it’s very tempting to erase that person, all their thoughts, their contributions to your community, their existence, with the click of one button. It’s nice to be 100% in control and weed out anything that goes counter to your plan. But your organization must be inclusive, open, and free. Unless users are intentionally destructive and threatening, you cannot be exclusive and controlling.
If you are a new blogger—a rising star—be careful where you invest your time. If you spend your time helping advance someone else’s vision, think critically and make sure that you truly believe in it. I got involved in a community where I sincerely believed in the vision, but I completely disagreed with the practices behind making that vision a reality.
I jumped at the chance to be involved in this blogger’s word-of-mouth “street team” because I’d been a fan of theirs for nearly 2 years! I was excited to form a closer relationship with this blogger, as well as help spread the word about their niche. I was a True Fan!
- I connected this blogger with an important contact of mine to feature their interview on one of the most successful blogs on the web.
- I bought, used, and recommended this person’s biggest flagship products.
- I created an affiliate sales page, wrote reviews, featured posts, and even set up an AdWords campaign to send targeted clicks to them.
- I constantly talked about our shared philosophy everywhere, with everyone I possibly could.
- Most importantly, I enlisted at least a few dozen True Fans to someone else’s community, loyal fans who continue to review, re-post, recommend, Retweet and otherwise consume and share everything this blogger produces.
I did all of this without compensation. (I will note that I did receive one hour of coaching and free access to 2 info products, but any business person knows that the lifetime value of a few True Fans alone is priceless.)
Unfortunately my relationship with this blogger spiraled out of control. Everything started with a simple misunderstanding, and I have to take some of the responsibility for that too, but I think we just didn’t see eye-to-eye on most of the lessons above. Maybe I’m too much a rebel in the face of authority, but it seemed that no matter what I said they were dead set on alienating me from the group and taking back full control of many of the things I invested my time and energy into as part of the community.
If you treat them like shit, your True Fans can quickly become your worst enemies.
You absolutely must treat the people who work for you, and your biggest fans, like goddamned kings. I don’t want to be anyone’s enemy. I don’t think of myself as competing with the people who share similar ideas and business models as me, but rather I look at them as partners, colleagues and friends. But it would be unfair to let anyone treat me this way.
I don’t play by those rules. What sets me apart is that my approach to both business and community is based 100% on integrity, trust and reciprocity, not on controlling the conversation. I’m absolutely opposed to that crap, and I vow to continue to build a genuine, open community with authentic discussion here at Thrilling Heroics and elsewhere. If you choose to join me, frickin’ awesome.
Thanks for reading. Please please please leave your feedback on this hot issue. I want to know if I’m being a complete dick or if I’m onto something. What do you think?
Feature photo credit: Sybren A. Stüvel
Hi Cody,
I am sorry about your bad experience!
I definitely understand what you are saying. There are so many pseudo communities set up primarily for the promotion of the main site. It is difficult for some people to realize that the group is more powerful than the individual aims of the sponsor.
Trying to control everything is a natural response, however it is exactly the wrong thing to do in this age of communities.
I am sure that the person that has wronged you is losing more than you are.
That really sucks that you had such a bad experience, Cody. I don’t know who it is you’re talking about, but it was probably a good idea to not name names and dig the trench between you any deeper. There’s a very good chance that time will heal this, and if not, at least you can part amicable enemies rather than having a blood feud (in which no one has anything to gain).
In any case, moving on, like you’re doing, is the way to go. Here’s to hoping that we only see more quality work from everyone involved in this small-but-impactful community!
It has been pretty obvious to me that you are genuine in everything you do. You genuinely WANT to help others. It sounds as though this other person didn’t share those priorities, and maybe just put on a face to cover up their true goals.
I agree with John in that this person is probably losing more than you are, although that probably doesn’t make the situation any easier. At the very least, you have a lesson to take with you (and provide your readers), about blogger interaction.
Eek, a learning experience indeed, but it looks like you’re walking away with a poised understanding of the situation. Cheers to you for being the bigger person here.
I’m thumbing my way through The 80/20 Principle…just last night I read a chapter that kept talking about how important an organization’s core followers (20%) can be. By creating an–to use your word here–authentic and open community, it becomes easier to recognize who your most loyal supporters are. Unfortunately your partner missed the point.
Keep up the good work at Thrilling Heroics!
I don’t know the specifics but I think there’s a lot of old thinking vs. new thinking. There is really a benefit in working with communities not against individuals, especially in this medium.
Good luck and thanks for sharing an experience we can all learn from.
I agree with you on every point.
I think what John says really rings true about there being many pseudo-communities. Any community created solely as a marketing gimmick completely misses the point. It’s like you said, the conversation should be guided but not controlled. Controlling the conversation is a pretty good indication of inauthentic community.
I hope everything works out for you and thanks for sharing. I joined the Thrilling Heroics FB group a few days ago. I hope to get more involved in the weeks to come.
Thanks for the show of support, guys! Sincerely appreciated.
@John: I only wish I had realized earlier on that this community wasn’t focused foremost on authenticity.
@Sean: Thanks for your sincere vote of confidence about my desire to help! I certainly do, and that’s what keeps me coming back to this keyboard day after day!
@Alan: Glad to see your comment here! The 80/20 book sounds interesting, I never thought of Parretto Principle applied to community that way, but of course you’re absolutely right.
@Anil: There sure is a lot of old thinking still! I guess I feel like it’s my job to go around challenging the status quo or something!
Sucks to that community and, like everyone, sorry to hear you’ve been burned. It happens to all of us and I think the trick is to limit the amount of damage we do our fans as we all attempt to grow and learn.
I think you’ve hit several key points on the head: transparency and power-for not power-over are two of my favourites.
Sorry to hear you’ve been burned Cody.
I tend to get my emotions all wrapped up into community building online and continually have to remind myself to step back a little.
It’s so hard when you’re passionate about something, but ultimately those with power decide you’re no longer valuable to them.
Like John said, they’re probably losing more than you.
I commend you for writing this post. I try to write very honest posts on my blog, and I am very happy to see you be fully honest with your readership and give us insight into what has been going on in your life.
I’m sorry to hear things went south. However, everything is a learning experience and you have truly learned a lot from this experience.
With that said, I hope you don’t close yourself off from working with other bloggers. I want to continue working together with you on Experts and work with you to develop something great.
We both have the knowledge and the presence. Lets work together (the right way) and build something great.
Always here for any support that you may need brother
- Jun
It’s sad things went in this direction and I managed to get partially caught up in it because I completely agree with how you approach social media and the communities that are built with it, obviously you had twigged long before to straw and the camels back.
Jon is right too, they are definitely losing more than you and that says a lot about how respected you are. Your approach to business is exactly what the world needs more of and everything you are doing with your own business and helping others is a testament to your character and I’m really looking forward to one day meeting you.
All bloggers want to be the voice of authority in their niche, a voice of authority though does not translate into the authority to control that niche.
Very good points all around Cody. I like how you’ve stuck to your stance, rationally and calmly explained it and your side of this bad situation, and that you told your fans in an honest voice. Unfortunately, some people are censorship dictator assholes with hidden intentions who are practically using everyone who follows them and who they team up with. These people are cancers who aren’t worth the energy and I will just stop complete communication with them. Fuck them, no room for negative cancers on the ride to the top.
Hi Cody
Wow, this article came as a shock. I am pretty sure I know who and what you’re talking about and I think its wise not to name names in a situation like this.
I’ve certainly had the misfortune in the past of being SO excited about something like the community you speak of that I’ve poured my heart and soul into it to get nothing back. It’s definitely taught me some important lessons and I think I’m a little more wary of things like these communities as a result.
As an avid reader of both your blog and the LI blog, I offer you all my full support and hope that in time you guys can get past this. I’m feeling for you – it must be really disappointing!
Dear Cody,
Read your post and it sounds like a tough burden to shoulder, such is the way of authentic leadership. I do respect your morals and values, which are earnest without a doubt. For fun, I did a crtl-f using the word “learn” on this post and found “7″ hits. To me, this means people are still learning from you (as always). Thanks for sharing, and I do miss hanging back with you. Raise a glass, here’s to you Cody!
Love,
Paul.
That sucks Cody. I can’t imagine why anyone would want to take a star member of their community and shun them out. The amount of work you put in to the community getting very little in return should have been appreciated greatly by the owners yet they saw it as a threat and threw away all that it could be. Hopefully they’ll see the errors of their ways and not make the same mistake in the future.
Sounds like a really crappy situation Cody. So sorry you had to deal with this. I completely agree that there is plenty of customers to go around and that us fellow bloggers in similar niches and business models need to work with each other. It’s not smart to make enemies in the blogging world because it will come back to haunt you. Karma is karma. You get what you put out into the world… so with that in mind it only makes sense to work side by side with your “competitors”. No one will make it big by stomping on others. It might work in the corporate world of business, but not online where everything can and is exposed.
I know exactly who you are talking about and hope this situation cools down. Cheers for being a rarity in business. A real person trying to create real change in peoples lives without stepping in the mess of competition. Your true fans will always be there because you are real. Period.
Oh man. I came out here from a retweet and I can empathise – I’ve faced similar situations but in other fields. I’m so sorry you felt dicked over, and I hope that things resolve well for you very soon!
After my whirlwind experiences I was told by some people I trusted that even though it didn’t go the way I planned, I had learnt a lot of valuable things from the experience, so it wasn’t a complete failure. That’s very hard to take just moments from the meltdown (it’s taken me a year and I’m *still* coming to terms with it) but it is a very helpful statement once you can make your peace.
bah drama! *hugs*
I’m really sorry to hear all of this Cody! Came as a bit of a shock to me, as most of this was behind closed doors like you said. Definitely a learning experience and a chance to pass that life lesson along to others as you have. Your advice is valuable beyond this situation and the people involved. I hope the other connections made in the community will not be damaged and that we can all learn from this, building better relationships and goals together in the future.
Sorry to hear about the bad experiences. I’ve been in that situation too. Luckily, you learn from each experience and you start to avoid these scenarios and start to identify the people who you can REALLY trust and work with. Since supposedly 90% of communication is not what you say but HOW you say it, it’s easy to create misunderstandings in a text platform when only 10% of communications can be there.
Let me know if I can help you with anything and I’d be glad to be an assisting hand!
This sucks man. I have to give you props on the way this is written up though. You’ve turned a terrible experience into a stern warning for so many of your readers. I still don’t understand some of the monopolizing of ideas. This is even more frustrating in my niche. We really have some lessons to learn about building communities. Keep doing what you’re doing. Those who use manipulation to take control of free ideas aren’t just doing it to you. There was someone before you and there will be someone after. They will keep burning people and creating exactly what they’re so fearful of as a result. Thanks for turning the other cheek and being brave enough to share.
I really think the Cluetrain Manifesto should be considered mandatory reading for any company, group, or individual that wants to “engage” with an online community.
http://www.cluetrain.org
Your #7 rules are spot on.
Thank you for sharing this.
– Chris
Hey Cody, sorry to hear about the conflict. Good for you for having the courage to speak up about it. You’ll do just fine when all is settled. Keep up the inspirational writing. There’s plenty of room for all strong voices who are interested in location independence or any other topic for that matter. Like you said, it’s not a zero-sum game.
Hi Friend,
Very well written, as I know this has been a huge source of stress for you. I’m going to bring this back to a point that I just read in an article – it sounds like your interests were aligned, but not your values! I wish everyone had the same views on business ethics and creating open, collaborative communities. Ultimately, my hope is that collaborative business will become the norm. But it is frustrating to feel like your efforts are going to something you believe in, only to find out your values were not in sync.
I know from working closely that you are ‘walking the walk’ of sharing information, being a trustworthy source, and genuinely helping everyone you make contact with. Beyond anything else, hold on to that; because that will weather any storm that comes your way!!
Thanks again to everyone for the many supportive comments. The feedback on this has blown me away, so thank you all.
@Carla & Jessica: Yes it’s difficult not to get emotionally tied up in something you have this much passion for. Bloggers have to be careful where they dedicate their time & effort. After some personal messages from a few people, it sounds like there needs to be a place where people can authentically talk about some of these topics without there being a single administrator who calls the shots.
@Jun, Jonathan Cruz & Corbett: Thanks for commending me on the decision to make a public statement. I really don’t want to start an internet flame war and get personal, but I felt that I had to say something after weeks of feeling bullied around and taken advantage of. Thankfully almost all of the feedback has been positive.
@Dan Haneveer: I really look forward to meeting you eventually too!
@Paul: Thanks for stopping by buddy! Miss hanging with you too; putting together that Spain video brought back a lot of great memories!
@Amber: You are awesome and it’s fantastic to have your support. Great thoughts you put out there on Twitter too, thank you. On the web, everything eventually comes out and the truth will be heard. Hope to run into you one of these days.
@Tiara: Thanks for reading and thanks for the hugs!
@Yu-kai: You’re right about losing a lot when you’re solely working online, not in person. I have to take some responsibility for the misunderstandings with this person too. Anyway, I’ve always appreciated working with you and Jun, you guys are fantastic and I look forward to our ongoing collaboration!
@Chris Dunphy: I haven’t read Cluetrain Manifesto yet, but it looks like a great book for traditional business folks to start looking at new ways of thinking. Thanks for the good recommendation.
@Brooke: Thanks for vouching for me. You know me & how I operate, and I appreciate you saying so.
Yeah one day the mainstream business world will be different, but it sure feels like fighting an uphill battle.
Cody,
I’m so sorry to hear you’ve had an awful experience. These things happen in business, and the most important thing is to never, ever let them change who you are and what you believe in. The idea of being selfless and nice is always suspect, especially in the business world, but you’re on exactly the right path. I can honestly tell you that after 20 years in the investment business, and being said to have had a terminal case of “nice”, I had tremendous success, made great friends, and slept with a clear conscience every night. Nothing beats doing the right thing. Best wishes! D
There’s one positive I absolutely love about situations like you’re in: it lights a blazing fire and let’s everyone feels its heat. That comes through and you clearly have the restraint to shape it into a learnable experience, not a petulant tirade.
Accountability and exposure can get lost when everyone’s operating from behind a blog or across timezones, so calling out someone that legitimately dicks you is absolutely legit. Go bigger and use the fuel they don’t realize they gave you.
Wow, very good writeup. I’ve spent the last 5 years promoting a company that I don’t work for, and consider myself a “true fan” as well. I’m very passionate about their products, and their general attitude.
They’ve recently gone online to the worldwide fans (I live local), and have been treating me like dirt in much the same way you describe. I’m in danger of falling in the same hole you’ve apparently fallen into.
I’m hoping they’ll see your article (just in case they do, I’ve left this message under a pseudonym).
I might just send the link to someone there.
Thanks for the great article!
– Abner
Cody:
I enjoy your writings. Keep up the good work. Thanks.
My first job out of college was for a startup engineering company. I and the other newbie engineers worked long hours for relatively low pay and would travel around the world at a moment’s notice and be away for weeks at a time. When describing my job to a friend at the time (a more savvy Wall Street type), he asked, if I had any equity in the company. I said no, and he replied, with a puzzled look, “then why are you working all those crazy hours for so little money?” I didn’t really get what he meant at the time, but I do now. In the end, the company got big, then small again, an I eventually left for more $$.
I had fun, made some lifelong friends, learned a lot of tech stuff, and a little bit of business stuff, namely, if you don’t have equity in the company, you are investing your time and energy at your own risk.
Enjoy!!!
I’m not involved in the community but it was easy enough to figure out which one you were talking about. I did subscribe to your blog through a link from them, though.
Honestly I like the AONC stuff a bit more than both yours and your fall-out-partner. I think it can be more practical with real detail as opposed to life philosophy, which I think is a bit of a trap in this niche.
All that said, I do like this blog though.
I think you may have a bit of cultural clash with these guys. I know that when I listened to a podcast I switched off because their attitude to traveling seemed quite … inhibited.
Wow!
I am late getting here, but I am with you on being authentic. Yes, we all make that mistake of becoming a fan, only sometimes to find out that you’ve been screwed, or treated like dirt. Life goes on.
You’re the winner for being the bigger man, and you have just got yourself a true fan, not just an admirer.
Rasheed
One thing to remember is that passion goes both ways, rabid fan and rabid enemy.
Sorry to hear your relationship with whomever ended up the way it did but sometimes that’s what happens.
Hi!
I just found your site actually, and what a great post to start with. Funny enough, you have no choice but to get emotionally involved, if you don’t I don’t think the passion flows thru. I always am amazed how quickly people can turn though for the slightest wrong saying and doing!
I have read countless of blog posts by the bigger bloggers about not to take things to heart, but it’s hard. We’re human!
Dude…I can’t go to a personal development blog without seeing them talking about you or having you in their blogroll…You have certainly blown up online. Great job!!!
As for this post: Sometimes, you just have to realize others are selfish unfortunately. Just think of Karma and know it will come back to bite that blogger.
Dave
LifeExcursion
I don’t know the site or the situation but your points are all valid and you explain them lucidly. Well spoken!
Cody,
I’m sorry this happened to you! I think anyone who pursues these kinds of actions is very short-sighted, as your post and feelings about the situation prove.
This “big blogger” has nothing on you. Be your own brand! You’ll be as big as you let yourself be, you just have to believe it. Do it better, nicer, smarter. Take this lesson not as “why you shouldn’t help other people” but “how you’ll approach it when you have fans”. Learn the lesson this blogger wouldn’t and move on. The internet has a way of working these things out (i.e. total jerks don’t stay on top long).
Having readers, fans, followers is a trust. It’s a gift. It can be humbling at times. They can call you out and keep you honest. But they are also your best asset. Too bad not everyone gets that.
Hey Cody,
This is pretty astonishing to me that a a reputable blogger has such a temperament and attitude. The beauty about the blogging world is it’s openness. In the one or two months I have been writing my personal blog I have not reached rising star status.. but more importantly I have found is that other bloggers and entrepreneurs are more apt to extend there hand if you are proactive in extending yours. Reciprocity is key in any walk of life…especially in the online world.
I praise you for sharing this experience with everyone. It’s not easy to share a demoralizing experience with many people. But believe me…I think this post helped alot of people access how they handle any type of success.
@brentongieser
Hey cody
Wow man, sorry to hear about this. I know something like this would seriously make me angry. There are always those kind of people out there, and you never really know how things will turn out!
You’re doing awesome and your blog is great, so don’t let the haters distract you too much. Just prove them wrong by being even better!
You have my support!
Cheers
Diggy
Hi! I just wanted to say that I am really enjoying your blog, first off. I can’t remember who introduced me to it but I have a chain that goes from my friend, Carl Nelson, to Cath Duncan and Jonathan Mead.
Anyway, I really enjoyed this post in particular and I could relate to it 100%.
I look forward to your future posts!
I really enjoy your reading your blog. This post, however, struck me on a personal level and I just wanted to say thank you for sharing!
I found important the clarification you did about eye-to-eye contact. With so much online written tools (no body language there) the communication of “hot” things could easily fall in mutual misreading messages. That makes all the social wealth of the experience to collapse for everybody.
Thank you for sharing this. I’m sure is plenty of people needing to know about preventing this problems and I found that you were authentically generous in this post.
Your attitude is saying that you’ll recover fast
Best o/